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Welcome

I started this blog in 2013 to share my reflections on reading, writing and psychology, along with my journey to become a published novelist.​  I soon graduated to about twenty book reviews a month and a weekly 99-word story. Ten years later, I've transferred my writing / publication updates to my new website but will continue here with occasional reviews and flash fiction pieces, and maybe the odd personal post.

ANNE GOODWIN'S WRITING NEWS

The tragedy of obedience: The Good Children by Roopa Farooki

19/6/2014

30 Comments

 
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What do you understand by the term “a good child”? Does it imply a particular proficiency in getting up to mischief and other childish things? Or does it mean, as for the Saddeq children growing up in Lahore in the new nation of Pakistan, suppressing their own inclinations and desires in favour of their mother’s strict demands? In a divide-a-rule regime reminiscent of the British Raj, the boys, Sully and Jakie, are destined to be doctors, their learning beaten into them by a tutor they nickname, appropriately, Basher, while the girls, Mae and little Lana, hug their mother’s shadow, dressed up like dolls in scratchy frilly dresses unsuitable for the suffocating heat. Until the day they can escape their manipulative mother through marriage for the girls and education abroad for the boys, they have no choice but to comply.

How well-prepared are such good children for their future adult lives? As the novel explores, children who are discouraged from questioning authority might struggle to protect themselves by appropriately saying no. On the surface, the Saddeq offspring are successful: they have careers, relationships, children of their own. But, in different ways, they are still, even in late middle age, the insecure children their mother created, maintaining as wide a distance as they dare from their parents, still scared of their mother when duty calls them “home”. Compulsive helpers, workaholics, conflicted about intimacy; even into old age they continue striving to be good rather than happy.

A family saga spanning three continents and sixty years, The Good Children effectively portrays the tragedy of obedience, not only for those directly affected, but for future generations and society at large. The novel opens with Sully as a postgraduate student assisting with Stanley Milgram’s famous obedience experiments. Partly prompted by the trial of the Nazi war criminal, Adolf Eichmann, this research explored the
harm that people are willing to do in attempting to please an authority figure. (As I’ve also drawn on this fascinating research in my own fiction – see my short story “The Experiment Requires” – it was a pleasant surprise to find it in a novel.) With its South Asian focus, the novel also links this to the violence of the partition of India in the creation of Pakistan as well as the subsequent atrocities in the splitting off of East Pakistan into the new country of Bangladesh.

Despite these heavy themes, The Good Children is not a preachy novel. While psychologically astute regarding the impact of a loveless childhood, it is never mawkish and wears its erudition lightly, with an appropriate emphasis on character and plot. However, it is rather long novel, and I felt decidedly more engaged through the first half when there was more narrative tension and fewer characters to keep track of.

The Good Children is published in the UK today by Tinder Press. Thanks to Emily Furniss for my advance proof copy.

What are your views on the paradox of “the good child”? What have you read, or written, that addresses this theme?
Thanks for reading. I'd love to know what you think. If you've enjoyed this post, you might like to sign up via the sidebar for regular email updates and/or my quarterly Newsletter.
30 Comments
Norah Colvin link
19/6/2014 06:03:53 am

Hi Anne,
I'm sure you'll be not surprised to receive a response from me about this one! I haven't read the book but am certainly familiar with the pressure placed upon children to be "good". My mother tells me I was always getting into mischief when I was little, but it could not have lasted much past the age of three for I distinctly remember being a "good" child after that at home and at school and never liked getting into trouble. The need to please is still very strong, so much so that making a decision to please myself can still be difficult. I endeavoured to bring my own children up "better", encouraging them to question everything, to think critically about "information" they encounter and to think divergently and creatively. I think I was reasonably successful for they are confident and independent adults, contributing meaningfully and positively to society, and not necessarily in agreement with me! I remember years ago being horrified when reading in a book about child rearing that it was important to "break their spirit". My belief is that you need to foster their spirit, encourage their creativity and allow their individuality to bloom. One book that I found particularly interesting, way back then, was called "what would happen if I said yes." It really made me question my rules and boundaries, encouraged greater negotiation and helped to develop self-regulation. I haven't yet watched the video you included. I'll have to find somewhere quiet. If necessary I'll pop back after viewing it. Great post. Thanks for sharing.

Reply
Annecdotist
19/6/2014 07:55:20 am

Thank you, Norah, I certainly hoped you'd have something to say about this one, especially as I linked to one of your posts. I'm trying to write my reviews so that they not only help the reader decide whether they'd like to give the book a go, but also raise wider issues for discussion, though I might not always achieve this.
Parents might require their children to be good for all kinds of reasons but, once you've been raised in that way it's hard to get away from, so I hope you're proud that you've done it differently for your children. I haven't come across anything so blunt as having to break the child's spirit, but it sounds so sad and self-defeating. I imagine it's quite similar to the Catholic culture in which I was brought up which considered (perhaps it's changed now, I don't know) that children were born with "the stain of original sin".
Do come back and watch the video when you have time. I don't know if you've come across the obedience experiments before, but I think you'd find them interesting.

Reply
Norah Colvin link
20/6/2014 01:12:00 am

Anne, that experiment is horrific. The professor was so emphatic. I was very proud of the subject for stopping the trials. Had he been in fear of repercussions himself (perhaps as in terrorist groups, though I thankfully am not familiar with their practices) the choice may have been even more difficult. I hadn't realised you had linked to my post, but thank you for doing so. I did feel you had written this one just for me, so thank you for it! And for reminding me of the stain of original sin. That's a good one indeed.

Annecdotist
20/6/2014 03:37:19 am

Glad it resonated for you, Norah. Yeah, original sin – quite bonkers!
The experiment is quite scary, especially as a number of participants went the whole hog towards supposedly lethal shocks. Just shows the power of persuasion by an apparently benign authority. Underlines for me your argument about the importance of teaching children to think for themselves. Keep up the good – If I can use that word – work!

Irene Waters link
20/6/2014 02:20:53 am

This is a very interesting post Anne. I have to say that you have enthused me to put "The Good Children" on my reading list as this is a subject I am interested in having grown up the daughter of a minister (huge expectations to be good) and also the daughter of a well-known person (in Australia) in those days where the expectations were also high. My mothers expectations that we were good and did what we were told were Victorian in nature, my father's weren't as demanding but the expectations of goodness from the community made up for any leniency on my father's part. It did cause me some problems for a time but now I think I was probably lucky. (too long a response to go into all the ins and outs here).
I have a strong belief that children need to learn to obey. They have to learn that they cannot always have their own way. Boundaries need to be set and they need to learn right from wrong. Sadly I believe that we are going in the other direction now and the result is rage. This is not quite on "good children" but it is where I think we are heading. http://irenewaters19.com/2014/04/25/alphabetical-emotions-vain/
Somewhere, down the middle I think that there must be a happy medium where appropriate questioning and expression of thoughts is allowed but the child also learns the skills they need to survive in a world which doesn't revolve around them, where sometimes they don't have their way and they have to be "good."

Reply
Annecdotist
20/6/2014 04:05:04 am

Thanks for reading, Irene, and sharing your reactions, as well as the link to your interesting post. I'm glad being brought up to be good has worked out for you. However, I do feel that, in many circumstances, learning to adhere to strict rules of behaviour impedes children's – and the adults they become – development of their own moral compass, which is a much more secure way to navigate through life. I agree that there are many ways in which children need to obey their parents and teachers, both for their own health and safety and for the smooth running of society, but I think that this can be learnt in a natural way. I think it's a matter of adults recognising that they have both the power and the responsibility, and need to exercise these in the best interests of their children, which won't always coincide with what those children want (e.g. to stay up all night rather than going to bed). Perhaps some parents, not wanting to be overly harsh, have misunderstood the need for boundaries so that children feel secure.
A complex issue that can't be fully addressed in a comments box, but you might be interested in some of the discussions on Norah's blog, including my guest post on praise:
http://norahcolvin.com/2014/02/16/examining-praise-stephen-grosz-the-third-instalment/
Sorry to ramble, always appreciate your comments, and will be interested to know what you think if you do read the novel. Not sure yet if it's published in the USA, but given the scenes set there, it ought to be – but of course it ought to be anyway, but I don't quite understand different publishing schedules across countries.

Reply
Irene Waters link
20/6/2014 03:41:19 pm

Thanks for all your comments Anne.Perhaps the children I am seeing are the results of no ground rules being laid in their early years. We have a huge problem in Australia with rage in young people and I think it is in part due to not having learnt anger management in that early period of their life. We were constrained to behave in certain ways (and certainly it has left me as a rule abider - difficult when you are married to a rule breaker) however I think that tackling the world is much more complicated than whether you were a good child or not. I think that a lot boils down to how you view the world and the things that happen to you. If you see them as being the worst thing ever they have the potential to become life destroying but if the event is a mere hiccough, a learning experience and then the person gets up and moves forward positively with their life the effect of that same experience on a person will be quite different. Whether these lessons are taught by watching your parents, taught to you from your parents, set out in your genes or just by your own life experiences I'm not sure but I think this ability is far more liberating than any effect that growing up as a "good girl" has. Although, perhaps the child views this experience as life destroying.
Yes I think that some parents (nearly all that I know) have not drawn those boundaries for their children at an early age.
I'm in Australia and we can pick up virtually any book from the UK or the States on the internet if it isn't available here. The world is becoming a very small place.

Annecdotist
21/6/2014 10:53:43 am

Thanks, Irene and apologies for locating you in the wrong part of the globe!
Sad to think of those young people over there nursing their rage, I'm not aware of anything similar in the UK despite there being lots of them to be legitimately angry about, such as educational pressures despite high unemployment in the context of an extremely materialistic culture that is depleting the natural resources that should be their heritage. Sometimes getting angry is no bad thing as it can motivate people to make changes. But perhaps that's venturing too far beyond the focus of this post which was the damage that can be done by an excessive emphasis on obedience and unrealistic expectations to be "good".
I wonder what you think of the research on obedience leading people to do (what they assumed was) damage to others? Another link I made in the post (but the downside of much of this academic stuff is not easily available online for people to check out for themselves) was to the research undertaken some time ago by Dorothy Rowe (an Australian, as it happens, who worked as a psychologist in Britain) with people who were severely depressed but were unable to change because their concept of being well was closely linked to their idea of being a bad person. She summarised it as them choosing to be good rather than happy, stemming from a fear of being punished for not reaching parental ideals.

Lori Schafer link
20/6/2014 09:44:41 am

Very interesting, Anne. I'm familiar with the experimental explorations of obedience to authority, yet somehow I never connected this to the experience of childhood, which is, of course, the ultimate experiment in obedience and also one of the themes of my memoir. I myself was undoubtedly a "good kid" - but I also didn't spend most of my youth under what might be termed an authoritarian regime. In my opinion, the big difficulty with focusing too hard on being "good" is that it prevents you from thinking for yourself. If the authority figure's standards were positive and achievable, the results may turn out fine, except that you still end up with a child who, accustomed to being ruled, is perhaps unable to adapt to changes in his or her circumstances because he or she is no longer being told what to do. Dictatorship can be a very effective form of government, after all - except when the leader stinks. I recently read a book of Jane Goodall's, and this discussion actually makes me think of her depiction of the organization of chimp society, in which rank is very important. Ours, I suspect, has a similar basis, even if it's less transparent. Anyway, in following the history of individual chimps, it becomes apparent that certain of them sought to please the leaders for two reasons - one, to keep themselves out of trouble with stronger animals, and two, because there are certain advantages to being on good terms with authority figures. It makes me wonder. There are demonstrable effects to mindless - or even mindful - obedience to authority, but what's the cause? Why the need to be "good" in the first place?

Reply
Annecdotist
20/6/2014 11:50:33 am

Thank you so much, Lori, for these astute reflections. Interesting what you say about the effectiveness of dictatorship in some regards – they certainly achieve some things more efficiently than messy democracies. I guess some families run on those lines also – it can be time-consuming and exasperating having to take different, and perhaps conflicting, points of view into account.
Thanks for raising the parallels with the organisation of chimp society. I think Stanley Milgram was surprised how many of his research participants complied with the instructions and he did try to explore the reasons behind this. One possibility was the survival value of obeying the more powerful figures, like those chimps, and like our parents if they are authoritarian in their approach and liable to punish non-compliance. But he did explore other possibilities, but I’d have to go back to his writings to check on his conclusions. It’s a fascinating area though, and I was so interested to see it explored in this novel.

Reply
Norah Colvin link
21/6/2014 04:24:11 pm

Hi Anne, I'm back again. What a wonderful discussion your post has inspired. You have a way of doing that, which is great - always "good" to have something to get the old cogs whirring.
I have been thinking again about that experiment, and am terrified to read that a number of people actually went on to administer the "lethal" dose. However I think it is all very well for us to judge and surmise about how we might respond from the safety of our society in which we have quite a degree of choice. It may be different if we were in a situation in which our own safety or life (or that of those we love) is at risk. If we are in society in which we feel we have little choice but to be "good" by following the rules imposed by those in power and perpetuated by instilling fear, of risk in this life, or the one beyond, the choices may be (or at least seem) very limited.
It also made me think of the situation at the moment for many teachers worldwide who have a very top-down assessment driven approach foisted upon them, an approach which goes against their beliefs about child development and learning, but an approach which is expected of them by their employer. Many teachers are leaving the profession because they no longer feel able to accommodate the expectations within their beliefs, or their beliefs in the expectations.
Irene's comments about youth in Australia is interesting. I think there is always a small percentage of any age group who suffers from anger management. I'm not sure how widespread it is among the youth though. It made me think of an article by Beth Woolsey I read in Huff Post Parents this weekend, "What if Consistency isn't the Key to Good Parenting?" So there you have it - good parenting, and good children. http://goo.gl/kW5PPX I won't comment more on the article here. It may inspire a post, and I think my comment is almost a novella anyway.
Thanks for the inspiration and discussion. :)

Reply
Annecdotist
22/6/2014 07:07:10 am

Thank you, for another thoughtful contribution to the discussion. I love how we make each other think and agree you've got enough here to take you well on the way to a blog post on the theme. I identify with what you say about teachers being nudged into behaving in ways that goes against their training and core beliefs. We had a similar thing when I worked in the NHS, grappling with professional ethics versus politician demands.
Regarding the obedience experiments, I've just checked how they labelled the shock panel: the extremes were DANGER SEVERE SHOCK and X X X. It was following the Second World War and they were trying to understand how so many people had taken part in such atrocities which, of course, continue in many guises to this day. Is it a potential part of all ourselves that's terrifying to contemplate?

Reply
Norah Colvin link
23/6/2014 06:06:35 am

I think that is what terrifies me!

Annecdotist
23/6/2014 01:17:24 pm

Perhaps we should all be scared!

Charli Mills
24/6/2014 02:21:57 pm

The book, Lord of the Flies, comes to mind following this discussion. a group of "innocent" boys shielded from the atrocities of the world begin committing such atrocities on their own deserted island. The commentary being that such capacity exists within us. And yes, that is terrifying to contemplate.

Annecdotist
25/6/2014 05:38:30 am

Oh, yes, Charli, that's a great example, thanks for sharing.

Caroline link
23/6/2014 04:06:52 am

Your review suggests that this is a very interesting book. You wont be surprised that I too respond to the question of the value of obdeience. I have always thought it was conditional on the situation. As headteacher, I claimed that during fire alarms obedience was essential. At other times, while helpful, it could be requested based on an implicit contract about a shared purpose of schooling. I was not always popular with the teachers for my stance, but I reckoned on being respecful to the young people.
When she was a baby people used to ask whether my daughter was 'good'. They meant, did she sleep through the night, was she a grizzler. It seemed to me very hard to judge such a young child. And since I have known children who were unable to sleep (bad?) because of health issues.
Obedience seems to be a word that applies especially to children, as in the novel. We don't expect it so much from adults these days. Hmmm.
Thanks for raising these matters. Always interesting to come to your blog! Caroline

Reply
Annecdotist
23/6/2014 01:16:37 pm

Thanks, Caroline, for this great contribution to the discussion. I wish I could have gone to your school! How sensible to make a clear demarcation from when obedience is obligatory and when it's a choice. It makes me wonder why it's so often perceived as an all or nothing thing. Perhaps it's because those in authority are afraid of looking foolish.
Yes, and good babies with the implication they give their parents little trouble. But the baby that doesn't cry is the one you need to worry about.
And agree, it's a strange concept if we're only thinking of obedience in terms of childhood.

Reply
Charli Mills link
23/6/2014 07:25:08 am

Fascinating post and ensuing discussions. Some cultures are more stringent in enforcing childhood obedience than others. Some families are so rooted in shame that they pass it down cloaked in obedience, mortified if their child acts outside what is acceptable.

Reply
Annecdotist
23/6/2014 01:22:05 pm

Thanks, Charli. Interesting point about shame, which also comes up in another novel I've just finished and will be featuring soon: Autobiography of Us. Perhaps it's parents seeing their children as an extension of themselves, rather than separate people, so can't bear them doing something they don't totally agree with. I suppose shame is bigger in some cultures than in others, as well as in some types of personality.

Reply
Sarah link
23/6/2014 10:20:32 am

So much has been said. This post (and all the comments) are...fascinating as Charli says. I don't know. I'm at a loss here. Certainly thought-provoking but also scary. You want your kids to be good (well, I do) but where is that line? When do you let things slide? You cannot trade being "good" for happiness in childhood. Indeed, in life. I've always hated the term "obey". It has a negative connotation for me.

Reply
Annecdotist
23/6/2014 01:29:37 pm

Thanks for reading and commenting, Sarah, and I totally agree, it's a great discussion, and perhaps especially pertinent for your blog? I think most of us want to be good, in the sense of living moral lives, but perhaps not so healthy if it's at the expense of thinking for ourselves. Always far more comfortable to choose to accede to another person requests than to obey out of fear

Reply
Sarah link
23/6/2014 08:37:41 pm

Ooh... That would be a good topic for my blog. Don't know if I'm brave enough to tackle it though.

Annecdotist
24/6/2014 09:42:00 am

Give yourself time, you might just work up the courage!

Natasha Ahmed link
25/6/2014 01:45:18 am

I haven't read this book, but the 'obedience' you refer to is not uncommon in Pakistan. My mother is number 5 of 6 children and long after her own mother died, she continued to be obedient to her elder siblings, because that's the way families are raised here. It's couched in terms of 'respect for elders', but never questioning her elder siblings' authority or deferring to them in every aspect has caused quite a few difficulties in my mother's life.

I've seen the same thing with cousins of mine who were abused as children, not by their parents, but by their mother's older sister. Because she was older, their mother never confronted her sister, and the children (now in their fifties and sixties) still see her, invite her into their homes and treat her with a respect she doesn't deserve. Everyone thinks they're exceptionally 'good' children.

The book sounds really interesting. I don't think a Pakistani of my mother's generation would read Sully and Jakie's mother as manipulative, though. They may see it as normal behaviour of the day.

Reply
Annecdotist
25/6/2014 04:38:19 am

Thanks so much for sharing your experience, Natasha, which certainly validates Roopa's fictional portrayal of the family in Pakistan. You also make an important point about how others would judge the mother in the novel as behaving in a desirable way. After all, everyone wants a good outcome for their children, even if they might seem to be going about it in entirely the wrong way. In The Good Children, however, the mother is portrayed as taking obedience and discipline into the extreme relative to those around her, and the eldest daughter agrees to marry, not because of any attraction to her prospective husband, but in order to find herself a more caring mother in law.
Thanks again for such a great comment and I'd be interested to know what you make of the novel should you manage to read it.

Reply
Natasha Ahmed link
25/6/2014 07:03:39 am

Anne, it's less restrictive now, as more of Pakistan's diaspora (which is quite large) is coming back to the country. And, as families become more nuclear, it is inevitable that some of the previous generation's values will disappear.

However, with regards to marriage, most marriages are still arranged by parents even today. Attraction is rarely a factor in an arranged marriage. It's always about family. Marriages are arranged on the basis of resumes and pictures, maybe a couple of meetings. <em>That</em> hasn't changed much even today.

Annecdotist
27/6/2014 04:11:15 am

Thank you, Natasha. It's interesting regarding arranged marriages, which do seem quite strange to Westerners. Yet a marriage based on romantic love is a relatively new notion in the West and, in some ways, brings other risks, such as what to do if/when that love fades. Now that many people are turning to dating agencies to find a partner, we're trying on some of the benefits of that "arranging" although sourcing it outside the family. Here in the UK the distinction is now made between arranged and forced marriages in which there is no choice (although there's probably a grey area between the two which would include coercion).

Jenny Lloyd link
25/6/2014 11:10:49 am

This is a book I shall have to now read. A lifelong fascination with the subject of social psychology led me to explore the consequences for a young man when he allowed his mother (an authority figure) to persuade him to badly betray his sister's trust. As proven by the charismatic influence of Adolf Hitler, unquestioning obedience to authority can have the most disastrous consequences. Stanley Milgram's experiments were shocking because they showed how ordinary, decent people could be persuaded to commit terrible acts of cruelty by those who they perceived as having the authority to tell them what they must do.
I consider demands for obedience from parents to be an abuse of parental authority.

Reply
Annecdotist
27/6/2014 04:15:15 am

Thanks so much, Jenny. Social psychology is fascinating, isn't it? However, I believe that a lot of the experiments conducted in its heyday wouldn't get past an ethics committee nowadays because of the deception involved. But they've contributed important data on our understanding of human relationships.
Your story sounds interesting – is that your novel?
And totally agree, authority shouldn't require total obedience, but many people – not only parents – are anxious in the way that they assert authority.

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